Appraisers' Free Forum

Just curious as to what your opinions are about the topic.

At what quantifiable point should/can appraiser trainees be permitted to inspect properties without their supervisor and without the supervisor ever inspecting the property????? (how many days, weeks, months, years, reports, or hours experience).

Should the states set some sort of criteria on this, ie. after 50 weeks the trainee can go on their own?????

Should residential & commercial be handled the same way?????

I think a specific 'number' is better than permitting the supervisor to say, 'when he/she is ready'.

My suggestion is after 100 appraisals, they can go on their own. Perhaps the state should have a two phase trainee permit. Phase one they have completed the basic education classes and need to be accompanied by a supervisor. Phase two, they can go on their own, and the final work product is QCed by their supervisor.

(FWIW, I was turned loose after riding shotgun on 3 appraisals. Boy, was I ever green. But I really worked by butt off trying to get everything exact and correct.)

I think I was cut loose after about three months. Back in 2002 we were pretty busy, so I'd guess that was about 60 appraisals. I didn't ask, my supervisor told me I was ready. She did continue to accompany me on inspections which I anticipated to be complicated.

Interesting question and topic Tel. My experience was probably different than most and might land someone in jail in these times. When I was hired I was an active broker, had been a property manager and built spec houses for sale and investment so I knew more than the average bear. For my first official “appraisal” my mentor tagged along. The next day I was on my own completely. About a year later he went along on an inspection just for show, the borrower was a developer and he wanted to act like a big shot, he proceeded to bark out orders to me the whole time to impress the developer. I waited until we got back to the office to tell him he was a rooster sucker for stooping so low to make an impression. I was not completely on my own after that first inspection, my boss would go over every report like a state board witch hunter, he was a pain in the ass to work for actually. The part I found amusing was after I was at the fee shop for 2 weeks, the owner of the company had me “training” two veteran appraisers. They were both dufasses who had only been appraisers and didn’t have a clue about real estate or construction in general. One asshole constantly reminded me about how many years experience he had, meanwhile my split fee arrangement was 5% higher than his because the owner paid based on productivity. Back to the original question, since we’re living in a world of standardized tests and appraisals are considered widgets there should be a federal law that trainees must have a mentor present for the first 20 inspections, after that the language should read “and all subsequent inspections of complex properties”, the verbiage should be written in a manner to allow the boards adequate room for a hanging if it is deemed appropriate at a later date. The lenders should be able to have their own standards, ie, no trainees can inspect, ever. :)

As far as Goodpasture is concerned, with very rare exceptions, as long as he signs on the right he is going on the inspection. Period.

Okay, so far..........one for 20, one for 100 and one for always.

Annemieke Roell wrote:As far as Goodpasture is concerned, with very rare exceptions, as long as he signs on the right he is going on the inspection. Period.

That is actually the correct answer. This is a quantifiable point. The trainee should be able to go on his or her own at the point that the supervisor signing the right side of the form believes the trainee is well-enough qualified that the supervisor is willing to accept all risks from the inspection they did not attend.

Of course, when I was in training, the clients had something to say about that. They would not accept a report the supervisor marked "did not inspect" ... period. That was in the days when they were actually concerned about the quality of the collateral and of the appraisal valuing it. In fact, my supervisor continued to go on inspections and to sign the right side of the form for some time after I was certified as a general appraiser... because most of our clients preferred it that way.

Not too long after that, the mantra became "lie and let inflation cover it." Not long after than I got out of the secondary mortgage market appraisal business.

This is what we came up with when we amended the regs here:

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title16/16.062.0001.htm

16.62.1.12 SUPERVISING APPRAISER/TRAINEE:

Towards the bottom.

The state should set a minimum, and the supervisor should set the maximum. IOW, if the trainee has done, say, 100 inspections to meet the regulation's requirements, the super can say, "You're still not going without me until I'm sure you won't miss anything."

In TN, the super has to submit an affidavit to the state certifying the trainee's competency to conduct solo inspections.

FWIW, Tracy (my wife and mentor) still accompanies me on every inspection. Mainly, it's to take pictures when you have to wade through poison oak to get the shot, but we still inspect together. And, once in a while, it still happens that we BOTH will miss something. (Where was that damned water heater? Did you see it?...)

I think it is a judgement call. There should be no threshold number, just a competence number. Some technically new appraisers bring quite a bit of experience to the table from related careers. Should a construction engineer be required to be hand held by an appraiser? How about someone that performed professional home inspections for years?

The inspection of the physical home may be fine, but the neighborhood needs to be scanned as well as comps. Why not a threshold on that function and a certification that the trainee was walked around the neighborhood and accompanied to the exterior observation of comparables? Are these observations any less crucial?

It is micromanagement of professional training and development & I don't see how it can come to any good. Someone meeting the threshold set might start thinking he's a big shot

I'm going with a big NONE i.e. NEVER.

What does it take now to sit for the exam; two years? What's the big rush?

All of my clients require CRs or CGs to physically observe the subject and sign on the left side. If you do not you will be removed from the approve list. No use debating.

What do your E & O peeps think about using trainees? Just wondering because I have never had one.

Do attorneys handle trainees any different in court than they do CRs and CGs? Just wondering because I have never seen one testify in court.

John "Corky" wrote:I'm going with a big NONE i.e. NEVER.

When I sign on the right, I am taking full responsibility for everything in that report. I am damn sure going to visit the property and make damn good and sure I agree with absolutely everything in that report BEFORE I own it.

Goodpasture wrote:

John "Corky" wrote:I'm going with a big NONE i.e. NEVER.

When I sign on the right, I am taking full responsibility for everything in that report. I am damn sure going to visit the property and make damn good and sure I agree with absolutely everything in that report BEFORE I own it.

I couldn't agree more. When I had a trainee he went on every job with me. I reviewed all his reports 100%. He was a friend and I was trying to help him out. When the market went South I had to cut him loose. I'm not sure how a trainee can be a business asset. I guess we train because we care?

For all of you that responded "never" or the equivalent. Who the heck is going to take your car keys away from you when you start getting lost on familiar roads?

I liked Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon as much as the next person, but students often surpass their master.

Good discussion. My intitial question was leaning towards 'should the state' set a certain criteria? Obviously appraisers in the past have not in all cases done a great job with their trainees. The state set 2000 hours as a minimum requirement...but what is 2000 hours? Is it 5 hours per report, 8, or what?

I really would like to see the first 1000 hours of experience take place in a college or professional school environment. The next 1000 hours is as a trainee for someone that has been an appraiser for X years. I sure don't disagree with the thought that if my name is on the right, I have been to the property. But I suspect that most GOOD trainees, at some point could be trusted to go out on their own. If you don't trust them, why the heck are they your trainee?

I do approve of the lenders saying NO trainees...the lic/cert guy has got to do the inspection. I wonder what % of supervisors lie and say they went on the inspection?????

Blue1 wrote:

Goodpasture wrote:

John "Corky" wrote:I'm going with a big NONE i.e. NEVER.

When I sign on the right, I am taking full responsibility for everything in that report. I am damn sure going to visit the property and make damn good and sure I agree with absolutely everything in that report BEFORE I own it.

I couldn't agree more. When I had a trainee he went on every job with me. I reviewed all his reports 100%. He was a friend and I was trying to help him out. When the market went South I had to cut him loose. I'm not sure how a trainee can be a business asset. I guess we train because we care?

I am glad there are professionals out there like this. I was lucky enough to have found one.