Appraisers' Free Forum

[BRCJR]

If you are turning in a report that is flat out fraudulent with manufactured comps and a grossly inflated value, be my guest.

But if you don't like the report because it's not identical to the way you do one, sorry, that's BS. ..........................

TC

Anyone that thinks a report is bad because it was not completed the way they do it, should not be reviewing!

[Stone]

If you are turning in a report that is flat out fraudulent with manufactured comps and a grossly inflated value, be my guest.

But if you don't like the report because it's not identical to the way you do one, sorry, that's BS. ..........................

TC

Anyone that thinks a report is bad because it was not completed the way they do it, should not be reviewing!

Yes, but when you read posts and listen to other appraisers, there is definitely an element of this activity going on.

[Edd Gillespie]

Edd-

You are taking so many positions that I think you are losing track!
In the USPAP FAQ thread, you state you don't trust the reviewer from New York. Now, you want all reviewers to turn-in reports based on an incompetence judgment call.
Are reviewers unfit to review but fit enough to turn in to the state bad appraisals?

Well, I'm certainly shifty enough to handle that effort to attack my credibility. I think it is just fine if reviewers stick to what they know and find and if what they find is incompetence that they know then it should be turned in. But, I also think that reviewers who substitute their comps and/or adjustments and market analysis for areas they don't work in or are otherwise not intimately familiar with are on thin ice and should also be turned in as incompetents, if not down right charlatans. Reviewers are fine with me other than the ones who have little idea what they are doing.

[Denis DeSaix]

Yes, but when you read posts and listen to other appraisers, there is definitely an element of this activity going on.

I find I read comments like that more from appraisers who are not active reviewers but non-reviewer appraisers that have had another's appraisal dropped in their lap by a friend or client.

For a fact there are reviewers that shouldn't be reviewing. Most of the ones I've met (or whose comments I've read) strike me as being level-headed, reasonable and not out for blood. Like anything other group, the majority of competent reviewers can be easily tainted by a small but glaringly incompetent few.

[Otis]

I haven't done a review job (or much else - it's reallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly slow here) in some time. But that doesn't stop other appraisers from sending BAD reports to me. The first thing I ask them, when I call them, is do they really think this is a violation of USPAP or the law or fraud? If yes, then I encourage them (ALL of them) to go ahead and file the complaint themselves. I then look over the report. I call them back after a few days to see what happened.

I've reviewed reports with bad speeling (Just for you TC) and found the report to be fine, from the perspective of USPAP and that the data presented in the report was factual. I've also reviewed reports that were perfect in every aspect (spelling, grammer, data, neighborhood descriptions, etc) and found that the appraiser had actually "jump market areas" to "inflate the value". The bad grammar or sentence structure is outside of the SOW for a review....The misrepresentation of facts....jumping of markets...no detailing of the factual data about the improvements...blatant fraud, is a concern that we should all have a MAJOR concern about and work towards improving the profession (yes - I called it a profession and believe in it as such).

BTW - Thanks BC for starting this thread - I know it's old "banter" from the other forum but still worth the thought and discussion and I voted YES and I will again.

[BRCJR]

A little different twist...

Say you are an employee of an appraisal practice and you review a report that should be sent to your state board, but your employer says not to send it.
You feel it is one that should be sent in, what would you do?

Possible job loss exists if you do.
You realize you are not assisting the profession if you do not.

What would you do?

[Stone]

Yes, but when you read posts and listen to other appraisers, there is definitely an element of this activity going on.

I find I read comments like that more from appraisers who are not active reviewers but non-reviewer appraisers that have had another's appraisal dropped in their lap by a friend or client.

For a fact there are reviewers that shouldn't be reviewing. Most of the ones I've met (or whose comments I've read) strike me as being level-headed, reasonable and not out for blood. Like anything other group, the majority of competent reviewers can be easily tainted by a small but glaringly incompetent few.

Possibly, but my comments were in regards to comments I hear (read) on these two sites, as well as things I hear at CE classes. How many times have review appraisers on either site written things describing their red-flags? Things that most certainly aren't requirements, but are somewhat common. Things like a lack of interior pictures, use of an MLS photo - even when explained, or sketches that include/don't include items that some folks feel should be there. There have been many threads and many examples of this in the past.

The reviewers I deal with don't judge reports by whether or not they look like their work. While they certainly have their own pet peaves I've never had any reason to think that in my working life. I'm lucky to not deal with all the farmed-out for less pay reviews that mortgage appraisers get stuck with, so it isn't something I've dealt with before. But, when folks who do a fair amount of review start discussing their set of red-flags and don't care that these items were perfectly acceptable under the assignment conditions, I have a hard time believing only a very few, incompetent, appraisers judge reports at least in part on whether they are finished in a manner that is similar to what they produce.

[Edd Gillespie]

But, when folks who do a fair amount of review start discussing their set of red-flags and don't care that these items were perfectly acceptable under the assignment conditions, I have a hard time believing only a very few, incompetent, appraisers judge reports at least in part on whether they are finished in a manner that is similar to what they produce.

I think you are right on. When knowlege fails, the reviewer is placed in the spot of trying to appear objective. It seems a set of red flags serves that need. Hang in there Stone.

[Steve Owen]

All of those things that have been argued by the multiple sides in this issue have some merit. As Dennis pointed out, some of us may appear to even be arguing more than one facet of this complicated issue... and I don't think that Edd is the only one.

The bottom line, however, or one of the bottom lines, at least, is that an appraiser often appears to be in sour grapes mode when another appraiser is turned in to the Board. This, added to the fact that there may be genuine disagreement about how a thing should be done leads to a bias on my part that appraisers generally should not be the ones doing the enforcement policing.

An example: recently I was given a report on some rather unusual apartment units. I am appraising a similar, rather unusual building, and the owner gave me an appraisal recently done on a similar building. When I read through the report something jumped out at me. The summary report did not give any specific information about the comparable rentals used... it simply stated that a survey of similar rentals leads to the conclusion that the subject units will be rented at market rate. Similarly, the cap rate was discussed in terms of using multiple disciplines, market, band of investment, etc., but did not spell out any of the specific information. There is no way, in reading the report to know if the appraiser really had good information or just made the rates up. This is an apparent failing, but if the appraiser does have good information in file, is not a critical one. Additionally, because the appraisal was done for one of the national, faster-cheaper banks, which I also bid and work for, I am aware of the possibility that it could simply be a scope of work issue... this bank regularly asks for restricted reports even after being told that they will not suit the purpose and having that explained to them.

So, if I were another appraiser, and not myself, it would be easy to turn this report into the Board, describing its apparent deficiencies. What would that accomplish? It would make me look like I was trying to kill the competition, the appraiser would most likely have an explanation that would be satisfactory to the Board, and both of us would have to do a fair amount of unpaid work.

Instead, the better solution is to let the market solve the problem. This particular bank is unlikely to turn this sort of failing in. But, word gets around. If this appraiser does similarly shallow reporting, then other clients, when reviewing his work against that of his competitors, is likely to choose the later.

I'll stick to my original position. Appraisers should turn in obviously fraudulent appraisal work... to the FBI. Appraisers should not, as a general rule, turn work into a Board that they have not reviewed... to do so, might be a violation of USPAP, since it implies that you have formed an opinion of another appraiser's work, but have not met the criteria of Standard 3. Reviewers should turn in shoddy work to the Board, only if there are clear USPAP violations... not if there are simply differences of opinion. And, clients should be the primary complainers to the appraisal Boards when they believe that an appraiser has erred.

[benluby]

I am not the english teacher. Therefor, if they have some horrid grammar, I grit my teeth and read the report. No interior photo's? Not something I like, as I prefer pictures, as they are free with digital camera's, but again, something I am not going to scream about.
MLS photo's? I'll note in the review that MLS photo's were used, but nothing more, as that is not, to me, reportable, and we cannot, without solid proof, state the other appraiser obviously didn't drive the comps.
I've read reports that were utter trash as far as I was concerned. Sloppy, ugly work, but they had their values and adjustments within reason, so that was that. I'll point out the errors they have. But I'm not going to report every grammatical mistake.
If they can solidly state and prove that their final estimate of value is reasonable, I will drop it there. However, if they are using data that I cannot verify through the sources they claim (unless it is appraisal files), I will notify that issue.
Will I submit a report to the state? Yes. Frequently? Probably not, as there is much more to it than simpy not liking someone's way of doing the work.

[Mako]

I'm assuming that all of you Crusaders put out 100% mistake free appraisals.


TC

MAN! That's a very astute observation.

I use to be from the 'turn-em-in' crowd...until I had some of my reports torn to shreds by competitors. Moreover, I observed colleagues getting their proverbial heads handed to them & retaliating with a poison keyboard of their own.

I've turned in ONE appraiser over my career, and it wasn't over an appraisal I'd reviewed.

I've seen some pretty bad reports...I did my job & pointed out the flaws & left it up to my client to decide what tact to take. Then again, I've never run across something as blatant as appraising a dental office as a four-plex.

[santa]

"This appraising stuff is and ought to be beyond the abilities of many. "

....and is....I know I see it every day, as many of you do........

the scary thing is, encouraging those who cant spell, write a coherent sentence, or string two logical thoughts together (present company excluded, of course) think they should flood the state with their conception of a bad report....if they had the ability to recognize a bad report, maybe they would know enough to be able to write a good one.

physician, heal thyself.

Unfortunately, there seems to be no good mechanism for accomplishing this. My ultimate departure from that "other place" was a result of suggesting that we need to clean up our own rather than allow some muddle headed policy of "kinder-gentler" dilute the gene pool, but even forthright discussion on this board or that, in the end, accomplishes little except perhaps to make us feel better. The thing has been beat to death...turn them into the state...turn them into the FBI....form a union....join a union...elect Pam for President....I am probably too cynical but it's all bullshit because nothing is going to happen until those who actually CAN, DO...and, good luck with that. Ultimately, it may just boil down to doing the best job you can do, and then doing it better. Appraiser or reviewer, take pride in your work, give that little extra effort, continually learn, strive for perfection without getting bent out of shape because you never reach it...and hope it catches on.

[skibs]

But if you don't like the report because it's not identical to the way you do one, sorry, that's BS. There are some on this board that see a red flag if the report is typed in all caps, no interior photos, minimal floor plan, no DOM, not listing all info services, no long winded addenda explaining the entire history of the world.

Pretty much the only poster I read in here or the other place who consistantly posts this opinion is you. Makes me wonder what kind of clients you have that pester you with BS so much you have this strongly felt opinion. I've never had that kind of experience doing mortgage origination work. Is this from 20 years ago and you're holding a grudge? Maybe its time to retire the selectric afterall. Or maybe its time to stop digging in your heals and report the freaking DOM if its causing so much pain.

[skibs]

Yeah I do mainly review, damn hard files and I do a damn good job.

I get annoyed at the petty reviewer bashing when it appears you've never seen a real review report.

[Edd Gillespie]

Yeah I do mainly review, damn hard files and I do a damn good job.

I get annoyed at the petty reviewer bashing when it appears you've never seen a real review report.

By way of explanation and definition, would you please contrast a "real review report" with an unreal review report? I think I maybe one who is in the reviewer bashing contingent (at least I intend to be) and I want to bash only the bogus and to never appear petty if I can help it.