Appraisers' Free Forum

[BRCJR]

Have you sent a bad report to a State Board?

[Goodpasture]

Lots and lots.........have about 5 about ready to go now

[WM]

No. I don't do any review work.

[TC]

No, I'm a real appraiser, I don't do reviews.

TC

[Edd Gillespie]

You guys don't have to be reviewers to find and report bad appraisals. Not being a reviewer is a cop out or are you so completely isolated from knowing what is going on?

Let me ask a tougher question. How many of you have turned in a bad appraisal generated by somebody in your own office or by an appraiser you know well? (This question assumes a pattern, although I don't think a pattern is relevant to the essence of the ethical responsibility.) What comes first, the cleanup or the relationship?

Then there might be the question of having faith in the board to handle the complaint in a reasonable and responsible manner, but we will leave that for another day.

[TC]

I'm assuming that all of you Crusaders put out 100% mistake free appraisals.


TC

[Edd Gillespie]

I'm assuming that all of you Crusaders put out 100% mistake free appraisals.


TC

Who you calling Crusader, Spell-checker?

I don't, never have and probably never will, but what does " He without sin, casting the stone" have to do with this? Might you be saying that the boards are mostly populated by those who hypocritically demand perfection as the appraisal standard of credibility? It is the boards that make the judgments, not the messengers. Or has that been corrupted as well?

Which begs the question of how many errors in an appraisal of what magnitude render the appraisal not credible? Can the boards really be trusted to figure that out?

Answer my questions, you never know I might be convinced to keep my mouth shut. Fat chance.

[Goodpasture]

I'm assuming that all of you Crusaders put out 100% mistake free appraisals.


TC

Not in the least. But I do provide support for everything I state as fact; I make sure if it is on the report, it is accurate; I make sure I use the shift key so people can understand what I am writing.

[TC]

If you are turning in a report that is flat out fraudulent with manufactured comps and a grossly inflated value, be my guest.

But if you don't like the report because it's not identical to the way you do one, sorry, that's BS. There are some on this board that see a red flag if the report is typed in all caps, no interior photos, minimal floor plan, no DOM, not listing all info services, no long winded addenda explaining the entire history of the world.

As to the all cap thing, my guess is most of you got in this biz in the mid 80's or later. Prior to that time all reports were typed in an IBM Selectric, I believe it was the secretaries that came up with the all caps ides because it was easier. Have you ever typed a report that way? I have, took me 2 hours. When everyone converted to computers, most appraisers switched from all caps, some did not. That doesn't mean that appraisal is any less correct or accurate, probably just means the appraiser is an old guy who is sticking with tradition.

And you also cannot deny that some appraisers would love to whittle down the competition out there, and one way is to eliminate other appraisers with bogus reviews.

My two cents.


TC

[Steve Owen]

I ran into a situation where an appraiser sent a letter to a client with a value opinion and no support. The appraiser freely admitted to violating Std-1 and Std-2 in the text of the letter. For reasons I won't go into, I sent the letter in to the board under the anonymous provision available in MO. I never heard of any action being taken against the appraiser, but have since heard that the appraiser is now CG. I don't have a lot of confidence in the Board's ability to enforce appraisal regs... I suspect that most who show up as suspended are those who have made a stupid mistake (or more than one). I have personal evidence that the worst offenders never get caught... and if they do, manage to wiggle out of it. I believe that if you find a fraudulent appraisal, you should not turn it into the board, but rather to the FBI.

For a reviewer to turn in work that is simply bad to the Board is one thing... for an appraiser in the field to do it is something else. First of all, if you form an opinion of another appraiser's work, you had better meet Std-3. Secondly, but not necessarily second, if you turn something like this in you had better be prepared to do a lot of extra work for no pay.

I'm with TC. I believe that in most cases it is the up to the client to turn in work they don't believe is up to snuff and appraisers should stay out of it. There is simply too great a chance of being turned in simply because the other appraiser did not agree with you.

[Denis DeSaix]

I voted yes.

I use my own filter system. A poorly written report doesn't necessarily warrant a submission from me (my own reasonable test).
A poorly written report that results in a significant error (as judged by me) and that could have harmed my client may rise to the submission level.
If I suspect (or discover) what I interpret as fraud... like ID theft (submitted to the state) or misrepresenting a commercial furniture store as a SFR (submitted to the state) or reporting a dental office as a fourplex (submitted to the state), then I'll submit the report (as indicated ) and let the investigators determine if there is something there or not.

[Jim Plante]

That's a pretty good test Denis offered: Is the report harmful to the client?

I'd go one step further and ask, "Does it hurt the public's confidence?"

An egregiously low appraisal in support of mortgage lending doesn't hurt the client if he makes the loan. It might keep him from making money by preventing the client from making an otherwise satisfactorily-collateralized loan.

[tel]

I only submit to the state for mistakes that are factual and would definitely have an impact on value. (ie., subject is listed on report as 3000 sqft and all public records say it is 2000, subject is an illegal duplex in a single family zoning area, but the appraiser said it is zoned two family, etc.) I never send a copy of a review report (form 2000), I only send the appraisal and a letter stating the wrong data and what is the correct data. Matters of personal opinion, do not enter into the picture....as far as I'm concerned.

[Edd Gillespie]

My gawd the diversity of opinion.

OK hard core fraud contingent, you get my nod, but what about the downright incompetents? This appraising stuff is and ought to be beyond the abilities of many. I thought this was a down with skippy crowd. No?

I just don't understand making this the job of reviewers or the emphasis on clients doing this clean up job. Greg gets my vote for the right appraiser perspective on this. It is the job of this profession and the appraisers in it to police the thing and a nasty job it is with no thanks attached. I don't care if you only turn in one a year, but for gawd's sake don't limit it to only those that you think harmed the client.

My concern is whether the investigators and boards have the training and discernment to do their job, which may be why some of you feel only the criminals should be turned in. Do we have any responsibility in seeing to it these boards and investigators have their heads on straight?

[Denis DeSaix]

My gawd the diversity of opinion.

OK hard core fraud contingent, you get my nod, but what about the downright incompetents? This appraising stuff is and ought to be beyond the abilities of many. I thought this was a down with skippy crowd. No?

I just don't understand making this the job of reviewers or the emphasis on clients doing this clean up job. Greg gets my vote for the right appraiser perspective on this. It is the job of this profession and the appraisers in it to police the thing and a nasty job it is with no thanks attached. I don't care if you only turn in one a year, but for gawd's sake don't limit it to only those that you think harmed the client.

My concern is whether the investigators and boards have the training and discernment to do their job, which may be why some of you feel only the criminals should be turned in. Do we have any responsibility in seeing to it these boards and investigators have their heads on straight?

Edd-

You are taking so many positions that I think you are losing track!
In the USPAP FAQ thread, you state you don't trust the reviewer from New York. Now, you want all reviewers to turn-in reports based on an incompetence judgment call.
Are reviewers unfit to review but fit enough to turn in to the state bad appraisals?