Appraisers' Free Forum

I ask qustions from time to time, as everyone on here is aware, and put in my opinion on appraisal related matters. The forum has the benefit and curse of not having our names on it. It is a curse because, other than a few, no one really knows who is who. Makes taking their responses a risky business.
The benefit is the incognito posting benefits trainees. Lets be blunt. Appraisers are, normally, loners. Bordering on arrogant, opinionated, and not very trusting of most others.
This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Even when wrong, most appraisers will stand by their opinions. When a question is posted, the first thing usually thrown up is competency issue. The next question, sometimes the first, is 'where is your mentor?'
First point: They may be asking because, even though they have an idea, they want some advice from fellow appraisers. It isn't automatically an issue that they don't have a clue. It could simply be, that they don't want to color the answers they get. They want to see what opinion someone else has, without their probable decision being disclosed early on.
Secondly, the trainees that ask questions deserve a little benefit of the doubt. The first thing to remember? They ASKED. If they come in with a chip on their shoulder and act like they know how to appraise the Sears Tower, then by all means, they need to be taken down a peg or two. But if they come in and ask a question, let's not ask 'where's your mentor?' A better question would be, 'what would I tell my trainee?"
Everyone talks about improving the profession. The best way? Help the trainee's out without turing it into a barbeque.
Improving the profession means just that. And if we cannot take a few moments time to answer a legitimate question in a professional and courteous manner, how can we think our profession is going to get better?
Let's make one of the cornerstone of our little cyber niche be that, rather than feasting on the young, we actually try to nurture their development, give them advice with links to verify and support our analysis, if possible.
Because I'll make it easy. We don't do it, then don't whine about the state of the industry. Either be part of the solution, or part of the problem.

Ben,

I agree that this forum is an excellent place for some meaningful and necessary mentoring. Let me ask, how much responsibility is to be placed on the newbie? What should the newbie be required to do? Should the newbie be required to obtain competent supervision?

At this point there is a lot of lip service to supervison and little availability. Tell me your spin on the follow through with a newbie. Do we have responsibility there also?

benluby wrote:Lets be blunt. Appraisers are, normally, loners. Bordering on arrogant, opinionated, and not very trusting of most others.

Isn't that a job requirement? I once posted that the IRS should make appraisal trainees statuatory exceptions for independent contractor employment while in training. My logic... only self-starters make good appraisers; if you are looking for the security and benefits that go with being an employee you will never amout to much in this profession, IMHO. Frankly, I'd say that if a newbie can't take the heat we ought to run them out of the kitchen.

Actually, reading the IRS rules, it is impossible to have a trainee as an independent contractor, since, by the very job description, training is provided.
As for the blunt replies? I didn't mean to insinuate that they should be tucked in and given a pacifier, gentlemen. I merely meant they should be given a little leeway before the typical psychopathic rants take over.
And, if they choose to enter as a sarcastic individual, then toughen their hide up, certainly.
Merely courtesy without all the usual paranoia.

Good points, Ben! I know I ask questions many times to reaffirm my own opinion, hoping it's correct...as well as to learn the answer to something I don't know.

I always appreciate the answer other than questions about my competancy or at that time, my mentor.

Now if someone would please tell me where the spell checker is I'd be happy.

Alisa wrote:Good points, Ben! I know I ask questions many times to reaffirm my own opinion, hoping it's correct...as well as to learn the answer to something I don't know.

I always appreciate the answer other than questions about my competancy or at that time, my mentor.

Now if someone would please tell me where the spell checker is I'd be happy.

What?!?!?!? You can't find the spell checker? Where's your mentor? Do you really think you are competent to post on the internet? How dare you!! Turn in your keyboard and go flip burgers!!! No literate person spells competency with an A in it!!! You're what's destroying the english language!!
By the way, I'd think you'd want to copy the post, and post it in word pad, then run the spell checker on it.
I never use one. Mainly because I am lazy.

See how silly that sounded? It would sound so much better if I'd simply told her I had no clue, or just a side step to spell check. And, it's much easier to get a good response and be paid attention to when being nice. I'll shut up now. Please feel free to napalm me at your hearts content.

Edd Gillespie wrote: Should the newbie be required to obtain competent supervision?

Seems like a lot of times, the nubes don't know whether their supervisor is competent or not until they come and ask some questions .... I can remember several in that other place that were frustrated and ready to give it up until they found out that their situation wasn't hopeless ... they just needed some advice .... and a change of scenery

One thing that I do NOT want to see happen here ... it what happened there .... people with questions who were too intimidated to ask them, after reading some of the road rash that some of their predecessors got ...

I would suggest that we give them the benefit of the doubt coming in ... and if they get a case of "genteelitis", then we can ride them red ... or just kick them to the curb .... which seems to be popular these days ....

benluby wrote:

Alisa wrote:What?!?!?!? You can't find the spell checker? Where's your mentor? Do you really think you are competent to post on the internet? How dare you!! Turn in your keyboard and go flip burgers!!! No literate person spells competency with an A in it!!! You're what's destroying the english language!!

[font=Lucida Console]
Spell checker? We don't need no stinking spell checker![/font]

"it's a damn poor mind that can't think of at least two ways to spell any word." - Andrew Jackson

I actually agree with the kinder, gentler, machine-gun approach.

Geez, good thing I have my thick skin suit on...and I know Ben is making a point!


Steve, please do not give me credit for Ben's words!! I am not so creative.

Alisa wrote:Geez, good thing I have my thick skin suit on...and I know Ben is making a point!


Steve, please do not give me credit for Ben's words!! I am not so creative.

No insult nor offense was meant, Alisa. The point, as you aptly noted, was that a post written in such a fashion does little to further someones comfort level. When we get antagonistic toward people, we defeat the purpose of attempting to help.
I've seen such responses before, and that was my point.

Hmmm. I just hit the "quote" button and started typing. I don't know how that happened, Alisa.

Steve Owen wrote:Hmmm. I just hit the "quote" button and started typing. I don't know how that happened, Alisa.

I logged in yesterday and it said I had 65233 new PM's. Just glad it didn't send that many notices to my e-mail!! ROFL. Oh well. Back on topic: I think the level of response should be in direct relation to the post of the questioner. Jim made an excellent remark in the Ethics thread concnerning how he handles it, and it should work just as well in the trainee, and all other, sections as well.

Does that mean you want, expect, me to be nice now???????????? AND JUST WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?











BTW, I think DB said it very welll. Ask a question in a respectful manner instead of telling, I'd be more than willing to bet that you'll see respectful and honest answers. Now go to bed my son (before I tell your mentor).

Well Ben,

I asked you a question and gave you lots of time to answer. So, under my rules, I get to tell you what I think the correct answer is. That is always my rule anyway.

I believe every question deserves a decent response and particularly so when the question comes from someone seeking instruction.

A couple of observations. I have seen posts from newbies who apparently have a chip on their shoulder and are not here to learn, but to tell the rest of use how to make money. Then there are the newbies who desparately need constant supervision since they seem to have gotten so completely in over their heads. There may be other categories and combinations, but those two examples occur to me at the moment.

What is scary is that we have no contorl over these people and they are loose in the profession and on the public. Their continued practice is danfgerous and a detriment to the profession. Until we figure ut a way to keep abs on this bunch, telling them to take a hike or humiliating them may be the best method available to strighten them out.

In short. ALL NEWBIES ARE NOT EQUAL. Your comments run to those newbies who want to learn. Learning does not appear to be a high priority for all. If so, what is our reponsibility?

Edd Gillespie wrote:Ben,

I agree that this forum is an excellent place for some meaningful and necessary mentoring. Let me ask, how much responsibility is to be placed on the newbie? What should the newbie be required to do? Should the newbie be required to obtain competent supervision?

At this point there is a lot of lip service to supervison and little availability. Tell me your spin on the follow through with a newbie. Do we have responsibility there also?

Sorry, Edd. I didn't realize I'd forgotten to answer your questions. Let me try again, if it is not too late.

Let me ask, how much responsibility is to be placed on the newbie?

Depends on the level of experience. Obviously, they should be required to listen, and pay attention to the advice given by those who are more seasoned, and should have the professionalism to realize that they are getting something that other newbies would love to get their hands on, a forum full of experience and people who will assist them as much as possible.

What should the newbie be required to do?

Pay attention and realize that no one is 'required' to help them improve. Be courteous, and diligent.

Should the newbie be required to obtain competent supervision?

I think every supervisor should be qualified and should have the ethics and morals to do the job right. I personally think, if a supervisor has been disciplined by the state, then they shouldn't be allowed to mentor for at least a couple of years. And, like most other jobs, when one realizes that something unethical is going on, then they should move on.

Once a newbie leaves the nest, they are on their own. And one last thing: If they come in with a chip on their shoulder, then all bets are off.