Welcome
Welcome to Appraisers' Free Forum

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, <a href="/profile.php?mode=register">join our community today</a>!

HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Residential appraisal questions go here.

Moderators: DB, Otis

HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Mako on Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:52 pm

<snip>

National Association of Realtors® (NAR) President, Charles McMillan, recently met with both the New York State Attorney General and with the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency – the overseer of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – to convey industry concerns. Representatives Travis Childers (D-MS) and Gary Miller (R-CA) have co-sponsored HR 3044 that would impose an 18-month moratorium on the use of the HVCC. It would seem a good time to pause and reassess.

Published: August 18, 2009


http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20090818_apprules.htm
The portal to the 'Battlefield' reads; "Stay out of here if your hide's thin and you're easily offended. Because you will be.”
Mako
Member
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:56 pm
Location: Low and wet
Designations: Crusader Nemesis

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Steve Owen on Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:34 pm

It would seem like a good time to pause and reassess. The article seems to be accurate, although did not go into enough detail about when an individual or real estate agent can order an appraisal... I just don't like the prevailing attitude that the only reason to have an appraisal is to get the loan closed (and that attitude has been prevailing for a long, long time).

The primary complaint about AMC appraiser selection processes is that too often appraisers are given assignments that take them out of their geographical area of familiarity and expertise.


If that is true, and that is really the primary concern, then HVCC does not need to be changed at all. All it will take to set this right is enforcement of existing regulations.
Did you ever feel like the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes? - George Gobel
User avatar
Steve Owen
Certified General
 
Posts: 4690
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:26 pm
Location: Joplin, Missouri

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Mako on Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:09 pm

Steve Owen wrote:All it will take to set this right is enforcement of existing regulations.


Take a great BIG BREATHE and hold it :mrgreen:

If they'd eliminate the AMC's...I could get behind the HVCC.
The portal to the 'Battlefield' reads; "Stay out of here if your hide's thin and you're easily offended. Because you will be.”
Mako
Member
 
Posts: 1753
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:56 pm
Location: Low and wet
Designations: Crusader Nemesis

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Goodpasture on Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:25 am

I just don't see why setting an HVCC moratorium for 18 months would do anything. Unless of course, they added the provision that LO's are REQUIRED to order their own appraisals.....thus putting all existing AMC's out of business.

I would think that putting AMC's under TAF, require them to abide by USPAP, be licensed (as individual processors) and have a legitimate complaint avenue would accomplish what is needed. I don't see anything in a moratorium that will accomplish anything.
Image
Image
User avatar
Goodpasture
Certified Residential
 
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:34 pm
Location: Pawnee Nation

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Edd Gillespie on Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:58 pm

Goodpasture wrote:I would think that putting AMC's under ...


Just stop with that. That is where I get off. 'course I refuse to work for them any longer even though, unlike Plant, I am not independently wealthy. From what I hear mortgage brokers were better clients, but we squawked due to the excesses a few. And we provided the AMC carte blanc opportunity by asking somebody else to solve our problems.

Leann used to say organizing appraisers was like herding cats.

The banks are using AMCs to avoid risk and responsibility and for a CYA. Don't kid yourself into thinking Fannie thought this HAVOC up on her own. I'd wager every word of it was veted by the banks. If AMCs didn't serve their purposes, the banks wouldn't tolerate them no matter what the law or Fannie said.

Quote fixed for you Edd - Otis
Edd Gillespie
Certified General
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Denis DeSaix on Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:49 pm

Edd Gillespie wrote:The banks are using AMCs to avoid risk and responsibility and for a CYA. Don't kid yourself into thinking Fannie thought this HAVOC up on her own. I'd wager every word of it was veted by the banks. If AMCs didn't serve their purposes, the banks wouldn't tolerate them no matter what the law or Fannie said.


Edd-

Your recent hiatus has done you good! You pretty much agree with me 100% when I replied to a comment on this subject in another forum (the post I replied to argued that the HVCC was "all about money transfer" to large banks' profit line):

Here's what I said
I take a slightly different read about "transferring the money" (although I acknowledge AMCs are a significant profit center for the larger lenders).

I've argued (and will continue to argue) that it isn't so much about transferring money as it is about transferring risk- specifically, regulatory risk.
Prior to the HVCC, regulatory risk and the appraisal process was focused on two points: The appraiser and the lender. The appraiser had the responsibility to comply with USPAP and the lender had its responsibility to comply with FRI requirements or GSE requirements. I think we can both agree that the regulatory enforcement process was dysfunctional and did not work.

Now, the HVCC represents a transfer of much of the risk from the lenders to this 3rd party AMC for managing the appraisal process. The appraisers still have their same share of regulatory risk (USPAP), but the lenders have a cover (plausible deniability) for much of appraisal management process. The HVCC has, in effect, become an insurance policy for large lenders (that's what insurance is- risk transfer). If AMCs ever get licensed, then that risk-transfer mechanism will be ensconced in the system and it will never go away.
A better solution (as far as I'm concerned) is to allow the banks to use whatever mechanism they want to manage the appraisal ordering process but to hold the banks 100% responsible and use aggressive regulatory oversight to ensure they are in compliance.

Obviously not all lenders use an AMC. US Bank is one of my clients who orders direct using their own process (which is separated from the origination department). I have a couple of smaller bank clients that work likewise.

A reduction in the risk level for lenders who use AMCs does result in increased profits, for sure. So, ultimately, I think you are correct when you effectively say follow the money. From my point of view (which may be in the minority), focusing on the risk-transfer aspect eliminates all the side-arguments about business decisions (appraisal fees and fee splits, AMC geocompentency, etc.) and keeps the spotlight on where it should be: The appraiser and the FRI or Financial Institution that is going to sell the loan to a GSE.
Denis DeSaix
Certified Residential
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:07 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Otis on Sat Sep 05, 2009 9:25 pm

GP - I agree with you except that a 18 month moratorium isn't going to do squat - this was brought up at our monthly "appraisal council" meeting at the board of reliators and I was the first one to say "I don't care if passes or not - the banks are too far vested into owning their own AMCs and will continue to DEMAND that all appraisals be ordered through them" and you've never seen so many blank stares.

It's a fact - so that's part of the reason I agree with you on that aspect.

Edd wrote:'course I refuse to work for them any longer even though, unlike Plant, I am not independently wealthy. From what I hear mortgage brokers were better clients, but we squawked due to the excesses a few. And we provided the AMC carte blanc opportunity by asking somebody else to solve our problems.

Leann used to say organizing appraisers was like herding cats.

The banks are using AMCs to avoid risk and responsibility and for a CYA. Don't kid yourself into thinking Fannie thought this HAVOC up on her own. I'd wager every word of it was veted by the banks. If AMCs didn't serve their purposes, the banks wouldn't tolerate them no matter what the law or Fannie said.


I partly agree with you Edd, and Denis (as always, extremely logical and well worded). However, I don't remember any of us asking for some to "solve our problems" except for the feds (by way of licensure and mandatory requirement that the MBs & LOs be required to adhere to USPAP [after all USPAP is "for Appraisers and USERS of appraisal services" (sic)]. That done and it would solve a HELL of a lot of problems from the residential side (BTW, I would expect commercial orders to move that way some time in the near future too).

Denis & Edd - the HVCC is an adhoc law created by the NY AG (Cuomo) that needs to be abolished and blocked by the gubrmnt (ain't going to happen) - as I know you both know - And I also know that you both are aware that Cuomo is a past BOD of an AMC so that just (did IMHO) influence his orientation of that state mandate of a federal requirement.

What astounds me is that so many believe that an "18 month moratorium" will get rid of the low fees and the pressure by the AMCs, and that the feds (duh) haven't seen the light. Can't wait for Dodd or Frank to apply for a refi. :lol: :lol:
Don't believe everything you think ;)

What are they SMOKING?
<<Link
User avatar
Otis
Certified Residential
 
Posts: 4746
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:23 am
Location: High and Dry

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Jay Trotta on Sun Sep 06, 2009 6:02 am

In the movie "The Sting".....everyone watched it, including Cuomo & Bankers; the "Set up" was the AG gaining a working knowledge of the internal process of the GSE. From that point forward, the pot needed to be stirred hence the hoopla created by the cross investing of Wall Street & Bankers (The Bubble), and the "Sting" is headline news regarding the AG to promote the "Bag Man-Middle Man" to be able to legally fleece the appraiser. The double hit- the Public & Appraiser contributing to the bottom line of Lenders/Wall Street, without "recourse" by the Legal Department (any/all) - due to the cover up created by the HVCC. Again, the money pit has been left "Unattended" by legal employment of the HVCC - if Not, why am I again hearing about; No Income/No Asset loans etc ???????

Because this process has been undermined (AMC taking greater advantage of the public) Bankers taking an extremely high return "Legally Unattended", the past tweleve month return has paid off their investment. The 18 month moratorium will be a misdirection play to passify those under the umbrella, for the short term.

If the powers that be can "abloish" the HVCC (really what should happen) and require Lenders (all types) to be "Licensed & Bonded", the freedom they now have to fleece the public will come to an abrupt halt. Should the FBI or anyone else care to review the History of predominant Fraud area's, they can employ the needed "Stop/Prevent" package to thwart further abuse in this area of the "Pusrchase Market" and increase the sought after "Forensic Appraisal" support to conclude their investigation's.

The number of "Bad Deals" created by "Unlicensed and Non Bonded" Mortgage creators over the past several years is astonishing - to allow that to continue in an unreasonable fashion and an uncontrolled fashion will allow the same things to happen again on a continual basis, by fact of the needed real change within the Industry as a whole. You can employ as many "mambe, pambee" Laws you want, but all this will do is to allow some folks the opportunity to express/experiment on "misdirection of regulation law" writting.

Just a Thought........unattended
As President Ford said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
Jay Trotta
Certified Residential
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:47 pm
Location: Snowglobe

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Edd Gillespie on Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:03 pm

Y'all.
Maybe my use of the word risk in a banking context is a poor choice since it runs to the risk of financial loss from investments and lending. What I mean about risk reduction for the banks has nothing to do with the value of collateral which the AMCs and appraisers are hired to find, it has to do with the risk of being exposed in lies and misrepresentations. The AMC provides the banks with a layer of opaqueness.
After what we have been through, I find it hard to find a legitimate reason banks should use an AMC other than that is the way Fannie wants it according to the "agreement" with Cuomo (it is not even a regulation folks).
To the extent an appraisal is a professional service, which I assume they all are, I believe any interference with the relationship and communication between the appraiser and the true client is unwelcome and suspect. Through relationship and client communication an appraiser can detect if the client is applying pressure or could care less about quality and prefers speed and low price, the appraiser can then choose to withdraw. If an AMC is in the way its hard to say who is doing what to whom.
So that is actually how my thinking has evolved.
Edd “In the real estate economy, there are no guarantees that reason will prevail in a market where emotions run high and the amount of misinformation runs deep.” Jonathan Miller in The Matrix. So what’s an appraiser to do?
Edd Gillespie
Certified General
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Denis DeSaix on Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:25 pm

Otis-

I agree with your thrust that a moratorium, only, is not a solution. It is only a solution if it leads to revocation.
If the strategy is to revoke the HVCC, then I think a moratorium is a good starting tactic. Once revoked, I think it would be difficult to ramp-up again.

The Feds could revoke the agreement now if they wanted to since they have control over the GSEs and Cuomo is one of their own (party alliance with the current administration).
Denis DeSaix
Certified Residential
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:07 pm
Location: NorCal

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Senior Jefe on Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:44 pm

Pause and reassess, what a load of BS, they want their unsupervised game of graft with the fee shops, MBs and realtors given carte blanch again and uncle sam footing the bill if (when) things go wrong. The blame for the HVCC should go squarely on the shoulders of the above mentioned trio of chicanery.
Senior Jefe
Member
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Punta De Mita, Nayarit
Designations: JEFE

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Edd Gillespie on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:35 am

HERE WE GO.

http://realtytimes.com/rtpages/20090907 ... report.htm

Fannie and Freddie are on the ropes. Just don't throw out the baby, those GSEs generated a heck of a lot of mortgage activity (and appraisal jobs) that wouldn't have come from anywhere else. Bottom line, banks won't tie up their capital so housing is affordable. So, if we are going to have affordable housing we need a plan. Smaller may be better. If one of them is mismanaged it won't have quite the impact. And maybe when it comes to housing, and maybe other some other essentials like transportation and health care, we have to let go of a little more of the "free market" myth.
Edd “In the real estate economy, there are no guarantees that reason will prevail in a market where emotions run high and the amount of misinformation runs deep.” Jonathan Miller in The Matrix. So what’s an appraiser to do?
Edd Gillespie
Certified General
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Senior Jefe on Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:34 am

Edd Gillespie wrote: So, if we are going to have affordable housing we need a plan. Smaller may be better.

Actually, thanks to a bipartisan effort, that part of the plan was a rousing success, we have affordable housing now, a whole hell of a lot of it in fact. Mr. Edd it's good to see you back.
Senior Jefe
Member
 
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:31 pm
Location: Punta De Mita, Nayarit
Designations: JEFE

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Edd Gillespie on Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:06 am

Senior Jefe wrote:Actually, thanks to a bipartisan effort, that part of the plan was a rousing success, we have affordable housing now, a whole hell of a lot of it in fact. Mr. Edd it's good to see you back.


The perspective for afford-ability is most meaningfully from that of household income and job security. We got miles to go and globalization must be addressed. We cannot maintain our standard of living and compete well.
Edd “In the real estate economy, there are no guarantees that reason will prevail in a market where emotions run high and the amount of misinformation runs deep.” Jonathan Miller in The Matrix. So what’s an appraiser to do?
Edd Gillespie
Certified General
 
Posts: 2630
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: HR 3044 - "It would seem a good time to pause and reassess."

Postby Steve Owen on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:52 pm

Edd Gillespie wrote:[We cannot maintain our standard of living and compete well.


I believe we must compete well to maintain our standard of living. (We cannot, however, continue to borrow from the developing world.)
Did you ever feel like the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes? - George Gobel
User avatar
Steve Owen
Certified General
 
Posts: 4690
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:26 pm
Location: Joplin, Missouri

Next

Return to Residential

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests