Appraisers' Free Forum

I've been talking for about 10 years now about getting a P.I., license. I thought it would look good on a resume' as a professional witness. I was tired of number hitters taking food off my table & thought...why not make the number hitters my food However, I went into real estate instead & I'm glad I did...better earning upside potential.

Some of you guys-n-gals might consider adding professional witness to your services. Mortgage Fraud is up 200% in the past three years alone! You could probably earn some pretty good coin if you had licensed in multiple states & a USPAP Instructor's license to boot.

BOOK EM DAN'O

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has more than 2,600 open cases of mortgage fraud, FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress on Wednesday. Most of the cases involve losses of more than $1 million.

More than 300 special agents are assigned to mortgage fraud, which is up more than 200 percent from what it was three years ago, according to the FBI.

"The schemes have evolved with the changing economy, targeting vulnerable individuals, victimizing them even as they are about to lose their homes," Mueller said in prepared remarks to the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Source: Reuters News (09/16/2009)

http://www.realtor.org/RMODaily.nsf/pag ... enDocument

I have mentioned before that there is a guy from your area (Seattle, I think) who basically turned his appraisal business over to his partners and became a fraud investigator/educator. I saw him in Missouri about four or five years ago, but I can't remember his name... maybe I'll have time to go through the old school files someday. His most memorable quote: "Now, the FBI is getting ready to look at Countrywide. How many of you have done an appraisal for Countrywide in the last year? People, the FBI doesn't know whether that is a good appraisal or a bad appraisal, all they know is that it is an appraisal that is in a suspect file. Be ready to defend yourself."

That quote is paraphrased, of course, because I cannot remember all the exact words he said. But, take my word for it, it conveys the meaning exactly. When he asked that question, I was one of the few people in the room who did not raise my hand. I think I had done an appraisal that wound up at Countrywide about four years before that, and I was thinking to myself, pretty good timing....

Steve Owen wrote:I have mentioned before that there is a guy from your area (Seattle, I think) who basically turned his appraisal business over to his partners and became a fraud investigator/educator. I saw him in Missouri about four or five years ago, but I can't remember his name... maybe I'll have time to go through the old school files someday. His most memorable quote: "Now, the FBI is getting ready to look at Countrywide. How many of you have done an appraisal for Countrywide in the last year? People, the FBI doesn't know whether that is a good appraisal or a bad appraisal, all they know is that it is an appraisal that is in a suspect file. Be ready to defend yourself."

That quote is paraphrased, of course, because I cannot remember all the exact words he said. But, take my word for it, it conveys the meaning exactly. When he asked that question, I was one of the few people in the room who did not raise my hand. I think I had done an appraisal that wound up at Countrywide about four years before that, and I was thinking to myself, pretty good timing....

You & I bailed from mortgage lending appraising about the same time.

I've got one question...do you regret making that decision?

I don't know the guy from my region you're referring to, but if you happen to run across his name please pass it on...I'd like to contact him (sorry about that prison thread misunderstanding psych your mind...I just want his name ).

I did take a class years ago from a McKissock instructor named Steven Smith from So.Cal. It was an expert witness course...excellent, and I highly recommend it IF he's still teaching.

Mako wrote:I've got one question...do you regret making that decision?

Not for a heart beat.

To tell the truth, though, it really wasn't my decision. I didn't quit them, they quit me. I loved secondary market appraising and would still be doing it today if I could maintain my integrity at the same time. In fact, I am giving some consideration to getting back in now that we have HVCC. Don't know, though... I might be getting too old for the stresses (there are plenty of other ones not related to value pressure in that line of work).

Steve Owen wrote:

Mako wrote:I've got one question...do you regret making that decision?

Not for a heart beat.

To tell the truth, though, it really wasn't my decision. I didn't quit them, they quit me. I loved secondary market appraising and would still be doing it today if I could maintain my integrity at the same time. In fact, I am giving some consideration to getting back in now that we have HVCC. Don't know, though... I might be getting too old for the stresses (there are plenty of other ones not related to value pressure in that line of work).

I've kind of half-heartedly thrown my hat back into the ring, and let me tell you - it's tough! There's a whole new set of challenges in this economy.

The plan was to pick up enough work to at least pay for some of my hobbies...but everytime I have a plan - life has other plans.

Real Estate is picking up considerably all of a sudden & I hardly have enough time for my hobbies right now...much less appraising. IF I'm lucky, appraising MIGHT pay for itself by the end of the year.

I was engaged to testify last week. I had to drive 3.5 hours each way. I sat in the courthouse for an hour and they told me they didn't need me since the other party wasn't contesting my values. All in all, it was a good days work.

I was tired of number hitters taking food off my table & thought...why not make the number hitters my food

A good idea but with all due respect, you're about four years too late. Time to game plan for the next stage of the cycle.

BTW, they taste just like chicken.

skibs wrote:Time to game plan for the next stage of the cycle.

Do you mind commenting on the next stage of your game plan? If my guess it right, for the last few years and presently it involves a lot of vacant homes with secret codes on lock boxes. That's what I've been doing. I'm wondering what will happend with that 24 month supply begins to dwindle down. I don't want to ever have to go get a real job again.

Jrs at OBX wrote:I was engaged to testify last week. I had to drive 3.5 hours each way. I sat in the courthouse for an hour and they told me they didn't need me since the other party wasn't contesting my values. All in all, it was a good days work.

Mind sharing the fee?

skibs wrote:A good idea but with all due respect, you're about four years too late. Time to game plan for the next stage of the cycle.

BTW, they taste just like chicken.

That's why I said, "I've been talking about it for 10 years now."

AND (and it's a BIG AND)...it's "about four years too late" in some regions...other areas (like the PNW) were a little slow to the party.

Moreover, we're PROBABLY going to get another round of this mess. FHA will probably need a bailout. I'm just surprised more homeowners didn't try suing their lenders...I really thought there would be a rash of law suits going around by now.

The expert witness niche may not be a full-time job (for some it is), but it could add another tool in the box in an industry starving for work...especially good paying work.

By-the-way...I should think a number hitter would taste like kitty-roca rather than chicken!!! After all...that's the kind of product they produce

I want to be an "expert", pick me, pick me!

Seriously, there are so many experts in mortgage fraud coming out of the woodwork you have to seriously question their credentials. What really makes one an expert in this field?

FTR, I agree with Skibs and Mako that this should have been planned for ages ago, but honestly, most of the experts I see (at least on Linkedin) added it to their resumes this year or last...

I'm be interested to hear how these dime a dozen experts are going to tip toe around the prohibitions of advocacy. I'd also question how they plan to be of any use what so ever to an investigation let alone litigation.

An attractive element of appraising is its possible expert component, but now we have "experts" out there selling their expert opinions for $300.00 on a Fannie form.

Corporate Lackey wrote:I want to be an "expert", pick me, pick me!

Seriously, there are so many experts in mortgage fraud coming out of the woodwork you have to seriously question their credentials. What really makes one an expert in this field?

FTR, I agree with Skibs and Mako that this should have been planned for ages ago, but honestly, most of the experts I see (at least on Linkedin) added it to their resumes this year or last...

"What really makes one an expert in this field?"

EXCELLENT QUESTION! After all there is no Expert Witness designation.

First (before holding out yourself to be an expert witness); take some courses from these guys-n-gals who are Expert Witnesses. See if you can't go to work for one...even on a part time basis.

Qualifications! Designations would help. I should think USPAP Instructor added to a resume' would be an excellent credential.

Take a 3 month course in Private Investigation @ your local University. Get the University Certification & get licensed. That would look great on the resume' of an expert witness. Or skip the certification program & just get the license.

After that it's all about experience...one case at a time.

Let's be clear...we're not talking about becoming an Expert Witness regarding all aspects of mortgage fraud, rather experts in the field of fraud regarding the appraisal process. I think I'd be safe saying, MOST mortgage fraud couldn't happen without the assistance of an appraiser.

Edd Gillespie wrote:I'm be interested to hear how these dime a dozen experts are going to tip toe around the prohibitions of advocacy. I'd also question how they plan to be of any use what so ever to an investigation let alone litigation.

An attractive element of appraising is its possible expert component, but now we have "experts" out there selling their expert opinions for $300.00 on a Fannie form.

Those aren't "experts" Edd...they're form filler sweatshop hacks.

An expert witness in the field of appraisal fraud would be a GREAT help in an investigation. Like I stated above; I think I'd be safe saying, MOST mortgage fraud is pulled off with the assistance of an unethical appraiser. I think I'd also be safe saying, MOST of these mortgage fraud investigators know little to nothing about the appraisal process.

Advocacy: I don't see how doing a good job reviewing a fraudulent appraisal could be considered advocacy. An appraiser CAN BE an advocate of their unbiased opinion of value.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a certified appraiser can act as;

A) An Independent Valuer, or
B) A CONSULTANT - which acts as advocate for their clients interest.

An appraiser CANNOT act in both roles simultaneously, and they MUST identify their role to all parties at the time services are engaged.

Consultant/ADVOCATES provide advice and assistance regarding case evaluation. In the area of valuation a Consultant/ADVOCATE can; assist in discovering the strengths & weaknesses of a clients position. They can review the summary of the case & background documentation INCLUDING PAST APPRAISALS.

That's just scratching the surface on the Consultant/ADVOCATE. They can also assist in preparing a client to depose an opposing witness. They can advise regarding pre-trial settlement and arbitration.

I'm a little rusty, and you're the attorney...you probably know more on this subject than I do. I should think this would be right up your alley.

There you go.

Edd Gillespie wrote:There you go.

Care to elaborate

"There you go" sheds little light upon the subject.